I use "boku" as well despite my middle age and male sex. My parents tried to get me to stop, but I just couldn't be bothered. "Watashi" seems so overly formal to me, though I understand that it's pretty neutral and is more appropriate in many situations (e.g., workplace). My father often used "ore" around his colleagues, friends, and relatives and thought I should too. Not exactly being a "man's man," I hated it and never took it up. Amongst businessmen of a certain age, it was very common. In my experience, businessmen still do, while male civil servants tended to use the more formal (and perhaps "civil" in more ways than one) "watashi" or "watakushi."
Lately I've also noticed, at least in social media and anime/manga, girls and young women sometimes use "boku" in a mildly ironic way, which I thought was pretty cool.
Anyway, maybe I should go around saying "washi" or "warawa" since my body seems to be telling me I'm getting old...:)
Having gone through the same journey as Matt-san and SM-san in the comments below, I settled on "watashi" or "jibun." Too old for "boku," and never having grown up on Japanese playgrounds, "ore" never felt authentic. The most surprising ones for me were at my first job, at a Japanese company. My boss had some flair and liked to call me "onushi お主." The office word for oneself was "shoushoku 小職," literally little jobber!
In my own experience, I had heard by many that "ore" sounded rough and it was used in some specific contexts, and so before I moved to Japan, when visiting I would use "boku" with everyone.
After moving to Osaka, though, I found that a majority of my male friends and colleagues I know used it most of the time (outside of maybe meetings in office spaces, at least), and it didn't feel like any of them were trying to act tough or anything inauthentic.
I also felt weird using "boku" when the only other people I meet using it are my friend's small children.
Maybe someday I can bring "washi" back if Japan allows me to stay here in old age.
Anyway, it's fun to see how different and expressive everyone's choice and thinking behind it is.
Lovely read. Funnily enough, I’ve had Soseki’s novel in my bedside book pile for longer than I’d like to admit. Learning about the difference between the English and Japanese titles alters my interpretation of the book and actually makes me want to try reading it again.
Thank you for this lovely and beautifully written glimpse into the daily complexities of Japanese language, it's why trying to learn Japanese makes my head spin! :) Even though it was just one sentence, the part about religion in Japan really hit me because I'm regularly asked about my Japanese wife's religion and the best answer is, "she's Japanese." There's no separating out the Buddhist and Shinto rituals from being Japanese, but it doesn't tell you anything about actual belief! It is so similar to my secular Jewish identity. The traditions are inextricably intertwined between religious, ethnic, and cultural.
I read I Am A Cat while I was living in Japan twenty-ish years ago, but translated to English - given the nature of the protagonist, and cats in general as you say, I'm delighted that the title itself carried so much depth of meaning, that I had indeed missed (my Japanese then wasn't good enough to read that book, and it certainly isn't now!). Soseki certainly had a gift for the fly on the wall aka cat in the room style of gossipy storytelling 😁
I Am a Cat is also interesting because of how the early translations "localized" even the character names (like transliterating Kaneda into Goldfield, etc.)
I really feel for prose stylists like Soseki and Mishima and many others, whose command of the Japanese language often gets lost in translation.
Interesting read! As an American it’s fascinating to me how Japanese pronouns work and how people generally just know which one to use! I imagine it must be confusing for foreigners.
I love how you can avoid the he vs. she vs. they debate in English though. I always want to respect people’s pronouns, but I’ll admit “they” is often quite awkward to say in English when referring to a single person. It’s confusing in some contexts whether you’re referring to one person or multiple. I wish English had a singular gender-neutral pronoun!
The US is, unfortunately, not at all a nuanced society like Japan, especially in its use of language, but more an either/or stasis locked in conformity. The recent trend of selecting a self referent is popular only among certain groups.
Google says, "there is a special pronoun called chin (朕), which serves as the imperial "I" or "Royal We" in Japanese. However, it is an archaic term that is no longer used by the reigning monarch today."
In English, there is also "One" when one refers to oneself, but it is mostly used by royals and royal-wannabes. "One would like a cup of tea now." Watch "The Crown" for some funny Queen-speak.
I use "boku" as well despite my middle age and male sex. My parents tried to get me to stop, but I just couldn't be bothered. "Watashi" seems so overly formal to me, though I understand that it's pretty neutral and is more appropriate in many situations (e.g., workplace). My father often used "ore" around his colleagues, friends, and relatives and thought I should too. Not exactly being a "man's man," I hated it and never took it up. Amongst businessmen of a certain age, it was very common. In my experience, businessmen still do, while male civil servants tended to use the more formal (and perhaps "civil" in more ways than one) "watashi" or "watakushi."
Lately I've also noticed, at least in social media and anime/manga, girls and young women sometimes use "boku" in a mildly ironic way, which I thought was pretty cool.
Anyway, maybe I should go around saying "washi" or "warawa" since my body seems to be telling me I'm getting old...:)
Having gone through the same journey as Matt-san and SM-san in the comments below, I settled on "watashi" or "jibun." Too old for "boku," and never having grown up on Japanese playgrounds, "ore" never felt authentic. The most surprising ones for me were at my first job, at a Japanese company. My boss had some flair and liked to call me "onushi お主." The office word for oneself was "shoushoku 小職," literally little jobber!
This was so great to read!
In my own experience, I had heard by many that "ore" sounded rough and it was used in some specific contexts, and so before I moved to Japan, when visiting I would use "boku" with everyone.
After moving to Osaka, though, I found that a majority of my male friends and colleagues I know used it most of the time (outside of maybe meetings in office spaces, at least), and it didn't feel like any of them were trying to act tough or anything inauthentic.
I also felt weird using "boku" when the only other people I meet using it are my friend's small children.
Maybe someday I can bring "washi" back if Japan allows me to stay here in old age.
Anyway, it's fun to see how different and expressive everyone's choice and thinking behind it is.
Maybe I'll read the cat book.
Lovely read. Funnily enough, I’ve had Soseki’s novel in my bedside book pile for longer than I’d like to admit. Learning about the difference between the English and Japanese titles alters my interpretation of the book and actually makes me want to try reading it again.
I love learning more about the layered meanings tucked into the Japanese language.
And that book cover is beautiful!
Thank you for this lovely and beautifully written glimpse into the daily complexities of Japanese language, it's why trying to learn Japanese makes my head spin! :) Even though it was just one sentence, the part about religion in Japan really hit me because I'm regularly asked about my Japanese wife's religion and the best answer is, "she's Japanese." There's no separating out the Buddhist and Shinto rituals from being Japanese, but it doesn't tell you anything about actual belief! It is so similar to my secular Jewish identity. The traditions are inextricably intertwined between religious, ethnic, and cultural.
I read I Am A Cat while I was living in Japan twenty-ish years ago, but translated to English - given the nature of the protagonist, and cats in general as you say, I'm delighted that the title itself carried so much depth of meaning, that I had indeed missed (my Japanese then wasn't good enough to read that book, and it certainly isn't now!). Soseki certainly had a gift for the fly on the wall aka cat in the room style of gossipy storytelling 😁
I Am a Cat is also interesting because of how the early translations "localized" even the character names (like transliterating Kaneda into Goldfield, etc.)
I really feel for prose stylists like Soseki and Mishima and many others, whose command of the Japanese language often gets lost in translation.
Interesting read! As an American it’s fascinating to me how Japanese pronouns work and how people generally just know which one to use! I imagine it must be confusing for foreigners.
I love how you can avoid the he vs. she vs. they debate in English though. I always want to respect people’s pronouns, but I’ll admit “they” is often quite awkward to say in English when referring to a single person. It’s confusing in some contexts whether you’re referring to one person or multiple. I wish English had a singular gender-neutral pronoun!
The US is, unfortunately, not at all a nuanced society like Japan, especially in its use of language, but more an either/or stasis locked in conformity. The recent trend of selecting a self referent is popular only among certain groups.
I use Boku, Watashi, Ore, Temae, Jibun accordingly.
Which makes many non-Japanese trying to learn the damn language more confusing than ever.
God bless the soul of people learning Japanese.
Wagahai or the (waga)highway
Google says, "there is a special pronoun called chin (朕), which serves as the imperial "I" or "Royal We" in Japanese. However, it is an archaic term that is no longer used by the reigning monarch today."
In English, there is also "One" when one refers to oneself, but it is mostly used by royals and royal-wannabes. "One would like a cup of tea now." Watch "The Crown" for some funny Queen-speak.
Great post, thanks for the insights!
Soseki’s novel inspired me to become a cat 🐈! But I must alert readers that these are dangerous times for cats 🐈:
“We're Not Taking Harmful Cat Behaviors on The Internet Seriously Enough, Researchers Warn”
https://www.sciencealert.com/were-not-taking-harmful-cat-behaviors-on-the-internet-seriously-enough-researchers-warn
Speaking of CDs, who's read Ayano Yazawa's latest? Oh man, did i not follow all that she was talking about in there! Howzabout you, Hiroko?
What about wariwari wa?
Ware-ware is one way of saying "we"
One of the first plural first-person pronouns I learned because it was so commonly heard in anime!